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Diary
By cam (Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 02:34:52 PM EST) (all tags)
China, caretaker conventions (1,2,3), Israel, Voting, Au rundown.


1. I am waiting for a years worth of data to build and come up to date. Since it is a slow day some politics and history in point form.

2. Apparently the Chinese didn't like the Mongols as they were ethnically discriminative and the southern song came out the bottom. The Mongols also followed hereditary traditions in the military and court, which was in opposition to the Chinese method of testing (merit). Interesting.

3. Caretaker mode of government as a stressful time on the public service:

I've only read the intro so far, but during the 2004 campaign Howard and so on did four ungentlemanly things:

-Posted ministerial press releases and transcripts on departmental websites [which technically weren't theirs to be posting on],

-Failed to brief or consult with Latham over a decision that needed making [which was dismissed on the grounds that a prime minister can't be expected to spend all his time explaining things to the opposition],

-Continued pork barrelling [even though technically they had no control over the money] and, you'll be ever so pleased to hear,

-Kept up some government ad campaigns [because the people needed to be alert but not alarmed election or not].

The Howard Government is wedded to power (I think this is corruption with being in executive government too long). More so than I can remember recent governments being. There is an absence of policy and any respect for the constitution. They have effectively given up good governance and traded it for power at all costs.

4. Washington has a caretaker convention too. When the Republicans lost Congress they did the right thing and didn't pass any legislation, instead waiting for the new Democratic majority to take over. They got panned in the media for not doing their job. Bad show from the media and bloggers there.

5. Caretaker conventions are a fragile thing even when explicitly laid out in a constitution. The Bangladeshi President usurped the constitution and initially took power, but later stepped down and put the country into an executive state of emergency instead. This is still not resolved in Bangladesh.

6. Israel is getting near to completing a constitution. But, they are looking to mix government and religion. Not good practice. In fact it is probably the worse thing a constitution could do.

7. I wont be voting in the November 24th election in Australia as I am disenfranchised. Apparently there are half a million diasporans in a similar situation to me.

The diaspora is actually quite wealthy and is becoming gold collar rather than white collar. The best known gold collar Australian Diasporan is Rupert Murdoch - and he is politically active, not scared to throw his money behind a venture that has political ramifications.

I am not Rupert Murdoch but I gave money in the last election to a candidate. And I will this year too. The Irish diaspora, especially those in the US threw their money around in political ventures too. One was to rescue Irish political prisoners from Australia. The Jewish diaspora has a similar history in that respect.

I wonder if the Australian Diaspora will try to influence elections with money.

8. Practicality has an excellent rundown of the Australian election as an objective voter:

I'm an Aussie voter. I also have a strong view on one particular issue, which influences my vote - but I'll leave that to last.

Firstly, the Australian electorate doesn't see one party being better than the other on economic management. The foundations of deregulation, floating the dollar, et al, were Hawke/Keating Labor reforms NOT coalition ones.

Some of us remember Howard as the treasurer in the Fraser gov - and that gov was not a shining star of economic management or ideas (Keating/Hawke in contrast were far better).

And, last election, a big issue was (mostly mortgage) interest rates, and the coalition line was they would stay low under them, 5 rises in a row has somewhat put paid to that argument, and in large part their credibility.

Second. 'Workchoices', which a significant portion of the workforce feel very uneasy about - if not for themselves, for their children, unskilled spouse, etc. Reform is good, but it perhaps went too far too fast.

Third. Howard is seen as a 'my way or the highway' sort of operator. Party discipline is iron-clad (unlike, say, US representative votes on issues).

Personally, I would usually be a coalition voter. But that one particular issue I mentioned is the '96 Howard gun laws. I'm a 'sporting shooter'. At least one factor that is not on the radar, but still very much out there is that alienating ~1.5 million voters is not going to help you, sooner or later.

I agree. I am ambivalent on the sporting shooter issue, but see no reason to deprive him of his sport. Guns are actually a state issue, not a federal one and Howard went infront of a group of sports shooters with a bullet proof vest on. Which showed his contempt IMO and willingness to whip up fear as a political tool.

The parties in Australia are decent on governance. They usually start off well, initiate some policies that are from their party background, etc, but for the most part economic management, as in the western world, is based on expert consensus and most of those tools are now in the hands of independent bodies such as the Reserve.

The two main parties are interchangable at the federal and state level. The issue in Australia is the incumbent advantage which means governments get past the post more often than they should (usually through a mix of corruption and contempt). They tend to have more trouble at the state level with bodies like ICAC and the Fitzgerald Inquiry which make corruption public. But even so, they can be turfed out regularly without the 'government' changing radically. IMO it is best to turf them out every six years as corruption has started to set in by eight years (if ICAC is anything to go by as an inadvertent term limiting body which has chased two Premiers out). Howard's problem is that he is well past the six, and almost into twelve. It is showing.

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Actually, it just shows that he's stupid by ShadowNode (4.00 / 1) #1 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 03:23:58 PM EST
The "sports" shooters probably could have made a headshot.

I'm a little confused about how pulling a trigger could be considered athletic.



Shooting is athletic like golf is athletic by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #2 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 03:30:46 PM EST
you need good form to get good results.


[ Parent ]

Yes... by ShadowNode (4.00 / 1) #3 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 04:31:42 PM EST
Would you really call golf a sport?

How about monopoly?

[ Parent ]

I call golf a sport by cam (2.00 / 0) #4 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 04:35:36 PM EST
me too by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #5 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 04:41:06 PM EST
a sport at least. I haven't played in years and years, but I know it's not easy to perfect a swing, and replay that swing time after time after time.


[ Parent ]

I also know that my patterns by cam (2.00 / 0) #8 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 05:01:05 PM EST
at the firing range could do with a tonne of practice too. But I don't go to the range often enough to worry about it, not like I do with my golf swing ...

cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
[ Parent ]

Lots of things aren't easy... by ShadowNode (2.00 / 0) #12 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 05:46:19 PM EST
But I wouldn't define "sport" as "things that aren't easy".

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How about things done recreationally that involve by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #13 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 06:07:39 PM EST
physical ability and skill? Sounds like sports to me.


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Tiddly winks? by ShadowNode (2.00 / 0) #14 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 07:02:38 PM EST
I'd include some sort of athleticism and stamina, as well as direct competition in any definition of sport.

To clarify, while there's some competition inherent in marksmanship and golf (really they're the same thing using different equipment), it's rather artificial and indirect. You can, if you wish, completely ignore your opponents and still win.

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Golf requires stamina by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #15 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 08:07:56 PM EST
and if you need direct competition, you eliminate track and field, swimming, skiing and biathlon from sports.


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Yes by ShadowNode (2.00 / 0) #17 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 11:45:09 PM EST
I wouldn't really consider those sports.

I don't see how golf requires stamina, aside from that required to pay attention to it for more than 10 seconds in a run.

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I smacked thirty balls by cam (2.00 / 0) #18 Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:57:29 AM EST
one after the other from an automated tee with a 5 iron. I had to stop because my lungs gave out. Golf is a good work out.

cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
[ Parent ]

That's not really golf by ShadowNode (4.00 / 1) #19 Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 01:55:59 AM EST
But that does sound like a fun work out.

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"caretaker" republicans by R343L (4.00 / 1) #6 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 04:49:26 PM EST
It is obviously completely unfair to expect the voted out group to pass major new initiatives. But I don't think it is too much to ask for them to pass stuff that is necessary for the govt to run -- budgets, approving mid-level executive appointments, etc. My memory is probably faulty, but I mostly remember criticism that they weren't bothering to pass appropriations bills that had been sitting around (sometimes being held back intentionally for electoral purposes) that are necessary to actually run the government. Maybe there were other things, but ... I just don't see the criticisms I remember as being that unfair.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot


It was one of the few times when they did by cam (4.00 / 1) #7 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 04:59:33 PM EST
the right thing. For some reason caretaker conventions are a well known practice in Westminster government - probably because there is poor separation of powers between executive and legislative and the civil service often performs the function of apolitical barrier to abject politicism.

The point of caretaker conventions is that the public services runs government while the elections are on and if there is a change in majority, until that majority gets sworn in as the new government or speaker (and consequent legislative majority). It occurs when the President goes up for re-election too, there are caretaker conventions when the executive is on the electoral chopping block.

cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
[ Parent ]

you didn't answer the main point by R343L (4.00 / 1) #9 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 05:18:06 PM EST
While they weren't a caretaker govt they put off stuff to gain themselves (what they thought were) electoral points (mostly I think by pointing to how "obstructionist" the minority was being). Then crap doesn't get done while they are a caretaker that should be -- like actually spending money for day-to-day business. And they intentionally leave a mess for the next congress.

And in any case, from various high-ranking members' statements at the time, they didn't do it because they knew they shouldn't as "caretakers", but because they wanted to stick it to the Dems. That's just silly.

Also, just some random googling turns up a few articles (sadly I can't get to the AP ones easily):

  • House Republicans introduced a "fetal pain" bill after the election (obviously it wasn't going to pass, but surely isn't caretaker behavior).
  • The WSJ at least reported that they wanted to make it hard for the next Congress to try to maintain some semblance of budgetary restraint.
  • They tried again to get warrantless  surveillance passed after the election.
  • As for spending measures, I can still get a NY Times article about it. Note the third paragraph: they wouldn't pass spending bills that were due a month before the election (instead passing the minimal stopgaps which I guess is okay if not great), but were going to try to push thru tax credits and oil/gass drilling measures.
So, basically my point is, the lame-duck republicans weren't acting as caretakers (and they were incompetent before the election anyway) but just wanted to pass pet measures or stage shows that would make it harder for Dems (or easier for Reps) in the next session. Hardly graceful caretakers just following convention.

Though I do agree with the larger point that the voted out body shouldn't do anything major. I just don't see the late fall 2006 Republican leadership as following that convention.

Rachael

(Though why the hell I am trying to argue politics with you I don't know. You and five or six others here are ten times better at it ...)

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
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when an election is called or a writ returned by cam (4.00 / 1) #10 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 05:28:43 PM EST
the existing government goes into caretaker mode. That means no policy, and the status quo is maintained until the election result is returned. Basically the government has no legitimacy during that period to pass laws.

It is a bit different in the Washington System, especially with the 2006 election as the President is not up for election. Most of the cogs of government are in the executive. They enforce the laws and see to regulations being kept etc. So the legislative is not as responsible for the running of government day to day as the executive is.

In Australian the Prime Minister is a mix of Speaker and President. The executive and legislative is in the one body (the House/Senate). So there isnt that same distinction. The Prime Minister oversees the4 executive and legislative. Which makes the caretaker conventions and the civil service more important.

Politics always plays a part of course. But the republican Congressional majority did the right thing by not passing any bills during the election. It was doubly right as they were replaced by a new majority. It was one of the few times they did the right thing.

cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
[ Parent ]

again, to be argumentative by R343L (4.00 / 1) #11 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 05:32:23 PM EST
You didn't respond to my point. Yes, the republicans didn't end up passing anything major during the lame-duck period. But that wasn't their intention nor their attitude. So saying they "did the right thing" is kind of disingenuous. It's like saying someone did the right thing in "not driving home drunk" when someone took their keys away.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
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except no-one took the republican majority's keys by cam (4.00 / 1) #16 Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 09:16:07 PM EST
away during the election period. They did it voluntarily. They still have majority, and the speaker could have rammed through repugnant legislation, especially as it was obvious they were going to lose in a landslide. But they didnt.

The Speaker controls what comes to the floor for voting. I am willing to bet those bills you mentioned were private member bills.

cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
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yes and no by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #20 Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 03:44:10 PM EST
It is obviously completely unfair to expect the voted out group to pass major new initiatives.

Clinton was impeached by a lame-duck Congress.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
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